What are our priorities for our group?

[Kris Eng]

I know we all share the principles and values delineated in Project 9/12. Also, I think we share the desire to get our country back on track and to align more closely with the vision of our founding fathers. So, more specifically, how do you want our group to function? What would be important to you in a mission statement or in an statement of purpose? What kind of material do you believe would be appropriate or inappropriate throughout our discussions, meetings, and in our public interactions? (Especially given the 9 principles and 12 values of the 9/12 Project.)

[Bob]

i agree with Wayne....I think it's important that we make a conscious effort to stay "party neutral"....I know that many of us identify ourselves by party but over the last few years it has become more difficult to tell the major parties apart. It takes something as frightening as our recent hairpin turn to the left to get people's attention......

[Peter Trippett]

Here are my thoughts on this subject. I hope you all don't think this is crazy.

When Glenn first announced his "We Surround Them" project, I was hoping there would be a little more practical information in his show. But, I also understand that Glenn does not want to be the leader, he thinks it would be better if we were to step forward and lead for ourselves. The main point of his show was to get us to gather together, as we did. I think he is right.

But, what are we to do?

Quite frankly, I am getting fed up with sitting helplessly by, as the government spends us into oblivion, ignoring the constitution, and every other principle that made this country great. I am tired of wathcing my money, my rights, and my freedom get slowly and inexorably taken away. Although I hope we can find a solution within the "system", and I support all efforts along these lines, I also think we must start considering other ways to work outside this system.

I think the time is approaching where we must draw a line in the sand.

Througout history, victories for freedom have been won against seemlingly unbeatable forces. Often those victories were heralded by written documents, that have become very important parts of history. Most notably, the Magna Carta, and the US Declaration of Independance. I believe that the time has come for such a document again, which would be that line in the sand.

I am not advocating a violent revolution or overthrow of the government. But I think that we must reassert that we are a free people, and that Freedom is one of the principles that made this country grow. We should remind the government that they work for us, and point out that they are re-creating conditions that have led to war throughout history. I think that we must be prepared to back it up, with protests, tea parties, letters to all of our representatives, and civil disobediance (e.g. tax revolts).

I realize that such an effort would take more than just our local group, and would have to be nationally coordinated. But I hope we can start discussions at a local level, as to what principles should be represented in such a declaration, and what steps we would take to back up those principles, should the need arise.

In 1776, 56 men representing the 13 colonies signed the Declaration of Independance, and that document changed history. If only 56 people signed such a document today, the government would probably just laugh and use it for tissue paper.

So, to answer your question, I am hoping we can start discussions at a grass-roots level, but also coordinate with other groups throughout the country, and hopefully with like-minded politicians within the system, to create a new Declaration of Freedom. If such a declaration is backed by millions of people across the country, I think it would be impossible for the government to ignore.

At any rate, that is my vision. I hope I don't sound like a crazy person.

[Bob]

Peter,
I don't think your crazy....yet
And I don't think the Declaration can be improved upon...you probably don't either. But what we could create would be a Contract for Leadership that outlines our values and principles....if an incumbent or would be politician wants the support of our group locally or nationally they would have to sign on the dotted line. No signature, no support.....if they violate the contract while in office we actively seek and support a replacement?

[Peter Trippett]

Bob said:

Peter,
I don't think your crazy....yet
And I don't think the Declaration can be improved upon...you probably don't either. But what we could create would be a Contract for Leadership that outlines our values and principles....if an incumbent or would be politician wants the support of our group locally or nationally they would have to sign on the dotted line. No signature, no support.....if they violate the contract while in office we actively seek and support a replacement?

Thanks for the reply! I was not suggesting an attempt to "improve" the Declaration of Independence, but instead a new "Declaration" that addresses the current state of events. But, I am wide open to suggestions to improve my idea!

[Kris Eng]

You all make excellent points! And I agree! At first I wanted the same as you, Peter, but then, after listening to Glenn Beck for several years now, he wants us to own this grassroots effort and that can only happen when we do the work. It's that kind of faith in people that I believe will make good things happen.

It is frustrating to watch the days tick away and feeling more and more helpless about where our country is going (and at a record pace.)

Oops! I need to take care of a couple of things so I will finish later.
k

[William Ames]

Peter, I like your style, but you have to be careful talking like that...you'll be on one of the early lists :-)

Since I think I'm already on those lists, I am tempted to talk plainly, but I also know that the circumstances of 1776 are simply not here anymore. This post might just get me fired, but what the hell!

It took me the better part of twenty years to figure out my own philosophy, and I don't expect anybody to understand it in a 300 word essay I've written while supposedly working, but I'll throw out a few random thoughts anyway, just to see if it resonates with anybody else.

We are now outnumbered, in spite of what Glenn Beck says. The last election proves it. If folks are waiting for the rise of some silent majority, they're fooling themselves...it ain't gonna happen.

The men that founded this nation came from a certain stock, and were a self-selected group who chose to be here because of their intense desire for liberty. That simply isn't the case now. That's one problem...

Two world wars and a civil war have killed most of the men with any sense of the spirit of our founding fathers, and we're left with a docile population that's too fat, drunk and stupid to realize how it all came to be. Most folks, even most quasi-conservatives, won't stand up for this nation because of fear. Fear of losing what little they have. Fear of being unpopular, or the very real fear in Centre County of becoming ostracized. Nobody will stand up against things they feel are wrong because they KNOW there will be a terrible backlash. Most people just don't want to take a stand when it means becoming uncomfortable, and that's the problem. Revolutions don't happen until the people are starving, and that kind of revolt seldom works out right. The American revolution was unique, because it was a unique set of circumstances.

In my opinion, there's no solution to our current state of affairs. We are outnumbered and trapped. The cowards outnumber the strong-willed. The people on the dole outnumber those who produce. One needs only look at past civilizations to see that this is nothing new. Rome is one example, but there are others. We'll meet a similar end, I'm sure, probably by assimilation into China and India.

The time has come for us to survive--to keep our way of thinking and our culture alive. Otherwise, it will be lost to assimilation. In the past, this meant running away, literally. When my ancestors built this nation (I am not the son of immigrants, rather, colonists) they fled a variety of oppression and slavery. The trouble is, there's nowhere left to run. We can't stand and fight, because we'll be annihilated, and I have no desire to become a martyr.

My advice is simple: stop trying to convert lilly-livered liberals to your way of thinking. Weaklings will always be weaklings, and trying to turn a sheep into a Shepherd is a fool's errand.

Instead, try to make your way as best you can, consider this economy akin to the wilderness our ancestors made their own, and start making babies as though your life depended on it. Everything else is just a distraction.

[Bob]

I agree with you to some extent....but I don't think all is lost yet. Remember only 56% of the voting age public turned out to vote in the 2008 election...if we fight and win the majority of hearts and votes of this disaffected 44% we can turn things around...at least.for a time.

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken

[Peter Trippett]

William Ames said:

Peter, I like your style, but you have to be careful talking like that...you'll be on one of the early lists :-)

[SNIP]

The men that founded this nation came from a certain stock, and were a self-selected group who chose to be here because of their intense desire for liberty. That simply isn't the case now. That's one problem...

Two world wars and a civil war have killed most of the men with any sense of the spirit of our founding fathers, and we're left with a docile population that's too fat, drunk and stupid to realize how it all came to be. Most folks, even most quasi-conservatives, won't stand up for this nation because of fear. Fear of losing what little they have. Fear of being unpopular, or the very real fear in Centre County of becoming ostracized. Nobody will stand up against things they feel are wrong because they KNOW there will be a terrible backlash. Most people just don't want to take a stand when it means becoming uncomfortable, and that's the problem. Revolutions don't happen until the people are starving, and that kind of revolt seldom works out right. The American revolution was unique, because it was a unique set of circumstances.

In my opinion, there's no solution to our current state of affairs. We are outnumbered and trapped. The cowards outnumber the strong-willed. The people on the dole outnumber those who produce. One needs only look at past civilizations to see that this is nothing new. Rome is one example, but there are others. We'll meet a similar end, I'm sure, probably by assimilation into China and India.

The time has come for us to survive--to keep our way of thinking and our culture alive. Otherwise, it will be lost to assimilation. In the past, this meant running away, literally. When my ancestors built this nation (I am not the son of immigrants, rather, colonists) they fled a variety of oppression and slavery. The trouble is, there's nowhere left to run. We can't stand and fight, because we'll be annihilated, and I have no desire to become a martyr.

My advice is simple: stop trying to convert lilly-livered liberals to your way of thinking. Weaklings will always be weaklings, and trying to turn a sheep into a Shepherd is a fool's errand.

Instead, try to make your way as best you can, consider this economy akin to the wilderness our ancestors made their own, and start making babies as though your life depended on it. Everything else is just a distraction.

William,

I sincerely hope you are wrong. It sounds as though you have given up all hope that things can be fixed. If what you say is true, then this whole 912 Project is a complete waste of time!

My thoughts are that most people simply have not educated themselves. They are educated in a public school system, that does not teach the founding principles of the country. Not only are they not teaching them, in many cases they are indoctrinating people into socialism, which is the direct opposite of our founding pricinples. People watch TV news, or read the newspapers, which are all slanted heavily against our founding values.

I have had discussions with liberals that I know. One thing I have realized is - they don't even believe that what is happening right now is socialism. One person I know is a Political Science major. He says that this is not Socialism, because (he says) the money being spent belongs to the government. To me, this just goes to show how poor our educational system is, even at a college level!

I know another person who was completely ready to vote for Obama, before this last election. That person is another local business owner. I spoke to her, and realized that she was really supporting Obama by default, because that seemed to be the way everyone else was going. When I explained to her what Obama's policies meant to her and her business, she changed her mind!

So, I don't think it is the case that we are outnumbered. I think that many people are just uninformed, and are just following the rest of the crowd! They don't listen to people like Glenn Beck, or Rush, because they (Glenn and Rush) are minimalized by the mainstream media.

In another post, I put links to the Thomas Paine videos that Glenn Beck has mentioned, and played part of on his show. I confess that my own history education was too far in the past, so I did not remember the part that Thomas Pain played. After watching those videos, I looked him up. In the months leading up to the American Revolution, the real Thomas Pain wrote the book "Common Sense", which explained founding principles, in language that all people could understand and follow.

This is what I feel we need now. People should come to understand how valuable Freedom is. In my opinion, Freedom, guided by the other principles and values, is the main force that has made this country rise so rapidly to superpower status, above others that have existed for thousands of years.

Recently, even some vocal liberals have begun to say things that show they are having reservations about the excessive expenditures of our current government. This gives me some hope that people can be educated. Maybe my first suggestion was premature. Maybe our first step should be to start educating people.

I also think that there are more people who are willing to sacrifice in order to reclaim their freedoms than you think. I considered before I posted, that my ideas were publicly viewable, and might be used against me. However, I stand by what I wrote.

I am a gentle person. I abhor violence, and desire peace. I sincerely hope that no violence comes to our country. I strongly disagree with Barak Obama, and his policies go against everything I believe in, but I wish no harm to him, or to any other person. In fact, I would prevent such harm if I could.

But, I also feel that there are lines the government must not be allowed to cross, and I will do what I must to prevent that. I think that is how most of us feel.

[Shawn Swanson]

Here's my 2 cents on the issue presented...

The community here would be well served by creating an atmosphere for the sharing of common experiences and, where possible, make it a conduit to extend mutual aid and 'support' when called for by circumstance.

The website and community at large can act as a platform for the free exchange of information and ideas concerning the following:

1. Any and all current events that effect us each on a local, state, and national level.
2. Research and experience can be presented on topics that promote understanding, independence, and self sufficiency.
3. 'How to's' can be offered that help folks prepare for emergencies, disasters, or the potential fall out from economic turmoil that can be be blended into your daily framework in a way that improves your lifestyle even if nothing disastrous ever occurs.

Those are some things off the top of my head.

[William Ames]

I completely agree with Shawn Swanson's whole post...

Shawn Swanson said:

Here's my 2 cents on the issue presented...
The community here would be well served by creating an atmosphere for the sharing of common experiences and, where possible, make it a conduit to extend mutual aid and 'support' when called for by circumstance.